Besides they can take the money they save by adopting healthy habits and have more spending money. Note they wouldn't pay more for health care but health care insurance. No one, not even the near dead, should pay MORE to these vultures. They should only be charged more if 1) their habits actually incur measurably more cost, and 2) those individuals without the same habits get a discount. The slim & trim one, or the one who's got a medium waistline that goes with their body / or height proportionate, or the 3 pack a day smoker ? Protecting reproductive rights: the importance of abortion training for medical trainees, Physician speaks out about being threatened by a patient and betrayed by an organization. What's next then? This is provocatively simplistic, betrays the lack of decency befouling this country, and represents why government can't leave corporations to run health care. Responsible people who exercise and try to enhance their health should have greatly discounted rates. Differential premiums determined by health habits is currently prohibited in Australia, as its considered discriminatory. By charging smokers higher health insurance rates, insurance companies can make people pay a price for the risks they take. Wal-Mart, which insures more than 1 million people, is one such company. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. YES and I say that as an addicted smoker. Specifically, they shouldnt have to pay to subsidize the healthcare costs of people who choose to smoke. If a union is in the picture, a differential would probably be a mandatory subject of bargaining. In fact, smokers hurt non-smokers by racking up healthcare expenses brought on by the hazards of their habit. Of course anyone that eats fast food, or any fried or unhealthy food would need to pay more. The more people need it, the more it goes up. It is a fact that if you leave an unhealthy lifestyle, your lifespan will be shorten and costlier. No you see the importance of everyone being required to have insurance, be it public or private. when they need their Health Insurance". Look, this isn't about alienating people or being mean for being mean's sake. Australia: We saved our average customer $320* on their average annual premium! Jack, Where do you draw the line? smokers get the ass end of every stick, even though people do way stupider things that risk their lives. Though I still occasionally meet someone who smokes, the behavior has mostly retreated from populations of higher socioeconomic status and has burrowed itself and its destruction in low income families. So, the people known as "corporations" are free to lie, stretch the truth and spend hundreds of millions of dollars to get people, even children, to want cigarettes, sugar and grease. Kytles practice also involves drafting affirmative action plans and he has represented employers in hundreds of affirmative action audits conducted by the OFCCP. This post is nothing more than to anger people and get ratings. You can change your choices at any time by visiting your privacy controls. Employers and insurers should carefully consider the implications of such policies before they adopt them. There are excellent intentions behind this policy smoking is the number one preventable cause of death and smokers disproportionately incur health care costs due to the debilitating diseases that result from the habit. A health insurance policyholder with a BMI in the obese range pays 22% more in health insurance premiums than a person with a BMI in the normal range. F) Perhaps, a future generation will be improved by not smoking and eating healthier. Yes. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Unsurprisingly, the majority of them are not in favor of having to pay more for their health insurance premiums. I agree with everything except for your last sentence. There is no excuse other than they lack the will to eat less. These include, but are not limited to: man buns and beards ; whether jam or cream goes first on a scone; the colour of The Dress; and smoking. Microenvironment May Predict Sustained MRD Negativity in Newly Diagnosed Myeloma, Promise of CTCs in Metastatic Breast Cancer Management. Now that's the question you need to be asking. Anyone that drinks excessively. Children and adolescents diagnosed with gender dysphoria receive radically different treatments depending on where they live. Charging smokers higher health insurance premiums is no more objectionable than imposing taxes on tobacco products, alcohol, guns, or gasoline. Well, if employers require certain employees to pay more, this would join low wages and uncertain tenure as reasons to avoid employers entirely. Charging people rates based on their personal risks protects insurance companies against moral hazard, people taking risks without bearing the consequences. If you have a poor driving record, drive a sports car, or live in a high-theft area, you're going to pay more for your car insurance than [] Jack, I don't think it matters that muchwhether you smoke, eat alot, or attack an ant hill in your back yard with a knife and fork. Education is a better tactic by health care companies. Really do you really think the insurance companies will stop charging more and chose one of us over the other? In addition, the ACA tries to make insurance affordable for more people by subsidizing the price of their insurance. The Affordable Care Act allows insurance companies to charge smokers up to 50% more for premiums. As for smokers, that is much more clear-cut and it would make sense to raise rates for those. I have always thought it odd that smokers are so shunned, at least in part because of the health problems and costs they bring, while the wilfully overweight are victims of the fast food industry. Likewise, the ideal customer for the health insurance companies are those who are perfectly healthy and not in need of insurance. After all, those type of people are much more likely to run up high doctor bills. Are we going to ask them to shell out for my extra expenses? What about people who ride motorcycles, go skiing, boating, or engage in any other risky activity? Abstract. Experts say that smokers disproportionately have lower incomes, so that a premium surcharge will hit them especially hard. Life insurance rates for smokers versus non-smokers. But that is private health-care, and we're talking about government health care(which I am not sure if I support or not). Figure out how much you'll save. We do not charge a person more that jay walks and gets hit by a car and we do not charge the Gal that has a child every year more because she gives birth like a rabbit. There is no reason why they can't quit smoking or lose weight. "These things in no way compare to the unnecessarily harmful effects of smoking on both the people smoking and the people around them who are also forced to suck up their toxic fumes," colleague #1 responds. If higher insurance premiums gets there attention I am all for it. Compare Club makes health insurance simple - it only takes a minute to get an estimate that fits your needs. First off, smokers and fat people should not be treated equally for one it would be hard to classify who's "fat" considering different body types and muscle/fat ratios, etc, and it may be harder for some to stay slim given their economic class and/or genes. Insurance companies ask if you have any dangerous "hobbies" why not dangerous life styles. Lastly I don't want to hear about poor people being harmed by this. Keep track of your milestones. Already a member? You get what you reward! Find out more about how we use your information in our privacy policy and cookie policy. Once implemented, the impact of the differential should be monitored to determine if it results in a disparate impact on employees in protected groups such as minorities and specific ethnicities. They should foot the bill for the fat and un-healthy. Do we want someone not going to the doctor for fear of their rates going up? While smokers pay much higher premiums for life cover, they generally do not pay more for health cover. The services have been available but no one took advantage. Many studies have shown that smokers cost the health care system more and that they cost health insurers more. Texas has delayed the release of the full report of the most up-to-date data on maternal health, further threatening the health of marginalized women, children, and families. People who drink too much alcohol? This site uses cookies. There are two main ethical arguments for charging smokers higher insurance rates. Proponents for smokers also argue that as the less affluent, less educated are more likely to smoke and to not participate in smoke cessation programs, imposing a differential has a disproportionate adverse impact, which may amount to racial or national origin discrimination. 88% of smokers began smoking before age 18. MD/JD Weighs In, Using Recalled Devices to Approve New Ones; Inpatient Safety. Smoking and the lack of eating healthy and maintaining a healthy lifestyle is a choice everyone can make. 6."Health Insurance Surcharges for Tobacco Users: State and Federal Rules." Please contact Medicare.gov or 1-800-MEDICARE (TTY users should call 1- 844-704-7357), 24 hours a day/7 days. When insurance companies price smokers out of their products, we all pay. We should not discourage smokers from getting insurance. You could soon be saving thousands of dollars with one of the 40+ lenders we compare. So instead, companies are now going to start making these employees pay more. But not enough employees have signed up or improved their health. Therefore, they cost LESS than non-smokers who live longer and who will suffer other costly age-related diseases. The idea is simple: smokers have the right to smoke, but not the right to pass on the increased cost of their healthcare to others. Running and hiking require no money. These are things that people can control, and why anyone would choose to smoke in this day in age is beyond me. Smoking yes, weight no. But do ethicists belong at the table? Yes. Whether or not this is fair is hard to say for sure, but if you're thinking of quitting smoking now could be the time. Anyone can get sick or get cancer, have a horrid wreck and we all should have the same rates. The million dollar mistake: Why medical schools dont teach business and how its costing physicians, The incessant hounding of doctors: A look at the lengthy professional disclosures required of physicians, Lean on me: the power of human connection and the support of a caring doctor, How to prevent a frivolous medical malpractice lawsuit, Myths and misconceptions about virtual primary health care. E) Probably not. They absolutely should pay more. No need to play big brother by charging people more for health insurance. cy from arlington, va. Multiply the number of packs you smoke in a week by the cost of cigarettes to find out how much you can save by not smoking. Jack, Smokers and fat people should pay more for insurance. Comparisons are made on the basis of price only and different products may have different features and different levels of coverage. Exercise at home. Instead, outlaw tobacco and educate everyone on better diets. 2023 Compare Club, All Rights Reserved. r/AskReddit is the place to ask and answer thought-provoking questions. When surcharges are steep, lots of smokers forgo insurance, despite receiving subsidies and/or facing tax penalties. Hospitals charge a kings ransom for a box of Kleenex. Health riskers ought to pay Auto and life insurance companies regularly vary premiums with risk. Health care is a basic human right and that right is not negated by smoking or overeating. Due to the increased risk, those who smoke can pay more for their monthly premium. Increasingly, companies are answering yes, and asking smokers to pay higher health insurance premiums than their non-smoking colleaguesor even not hiring them altogether. I am a smoker for 14 years now and my answer to the question is; YES! Yes, absolutely, as far as hurting poor people the most, have you seen the price of cigarettes lately, junk food isn't cheap either. Four-fifths of states follow that protocol, though most employer-based . STAY CONNECTED WITH THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS IN HEALTH, TECHNOLOGY, AND ENVIRONMENTAL ETHICS, Wall-Mart charges smokers more than any other company. You will be notified in advance of any changes in rate or terms. Dave from NH. Some Liberal Democrat(s) in Washington stated that it's discriminasting against fat people and smokers, that's why we all have to pay. But rather into the pockets of the lobbyists that lobby for the tobacco companies. Hopefully these penalties will get these overindulgent people to quit their bad habits and lead healthier lives thus live longer. Let's return to the days when we went to the doctor when we could afford it. Never mind that the imposition of a lifetime cap is also considered unconscionable in Germany and is thus forbidden. For your bank account? In reality employers are directly helping them save. Cost (the biggest problem with health insurance) might go down (or the insurance companies might just take bigger profits!) The availability of products compared may change from time to time. I guess intellectual consistency isn't our strong suit. Why should people who make an effort to stay healthy be penalized when people who are willingly and knowingly partaking in detrimental activities pay the same amount. SMoking, excessive drinking, over eating should be the responsiblity of the person who practices these activiites. In The Cure for Politicized Pediatric Gender Care, Moti Gorin argues that a U.S.-based systematic review, conducted by a trusted major medical organization such as the National Institutes of Health or the National Academy of Medicine, is needed to develop consistent standards for pediatric gender care. Healthy, beautiful people have all the advantages in life. Smokers miss an average of 6.16 days of work per year compared to 3.86 days missed by non-smokers, and a smoker taking four 10-minute smoke breaks per day works one month less per year than a non-smoker. Doctors charge whatever exorbitant price they want, and have NO incentive to make us well because then, theyd lose money. Healthy people should pay less. Find out more about life insurance for smokers here. Why not address the problem which is "lack of health care" or "the gross expense of health care" rather than take a view that would increase the expense? He or she can suggest a range of resources that can help you as you cut smoking out of your life. Private health insurance for smokers - Do they pay more? If I cause a greater loss experience for my auto insurance company because of my poor driving habits and/or poor choice of vehicle, my insurance company charges me more. Health care? Yes, shame on us for enjoying our lives. You may opt-out by. The fact of the matter is that these people are just enablers. Compare Club does not compare all products in the market. Instead of punishing people, why not reward them? The increased tobacco excise taxes are also filling up government coffers to the tune of an estimated $8 billion each year. Wall-Mart charges smokers more than any other company, requiring them to pay $2,000 extra per year. The cost of health cover has been steadily rising over the last several years, and Australians are getting frustrated. There are health issue associated with those folks as well. Quit smoking; start working out. Hi Jack. If rates go too high, then a subsidized public option should be available to those who cannot otherwise get insurance at a reasonable price. All this can be prevented, there is no excuse whatsoever for smoking and for remaining overweight and not actively trying to change. We all die, we will all make a claim upon society at some point. Fat people and smokers should pay more absolutly. Sign upfor free. But this is not true. They do, Jack. With nearly 16 percent of Americans now uninsured, the rate has been rising for years as prices for prescription drugs and hospital care have escalated. If you have a thyroid problem, you'd better have a doctor's note. We are delighted that you'd like to resume your subscription. Why not make health insurance premiums lower for those that take steps to improve their health? It's not that is it unfair but you need to be responsible. We should tax people for smoking, not for receiving health insurance. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Starting next year, Wal-Mart will charge employees who smoke higher premiums, along with offering a free program to help them quit. But I don't think that's where the tax is going. You may cancel your subscription at anytime by calling So smokers seem to be an excellent target to help employers manage costs. While the Affordable Care Act ends the era of denying people with pre-existing conditions access to health care, it allows insurance companies to charge tobacco users up to 50% more for their monthly premiums. This stuff is expensive, and I personally don't want to pay for John Doe's chemotherapy when he has smoked for 50 years. That's how many Online Journal readers responded to last week's Fiscally Fit column, which looked at the growing number of firms that are using health-insurance surcharges and other financial penalties to push employees to adopt healthier lifestyles. Genetic factors can also increase health risks, but genetic discrimination in employment and insurance is illegal in the U.S. and many countries. It only takes a minute to see how much you could save. Fat, smokers, too skinny, birth defects, pimples. everyone should pay more, right? This echoed the findings of a2012 survey of 1213 Australians,in which 73 per cent of respondents believedin the same principle. Think of the savings in paperwork. Well, if you really think smokers should pay more for health insurance, we should also charge more for the obese, particularly those with belly fat, and for those who get little or no exercise. Use whatever they have on hand as weights. Though its name has origins on the playground, bullying is a very real (and risky) concern in the workplace. Around 60,000 Australian households were quizzed about health insuranceby One Big Switch. It seems unfair to those of us that take care of our health? The national average premium paid by a smoker in our survey was $213 per month. Health insurers in Germany have conducted studies which have shown that smokers die younger than non-smokers. For individual health plans the kind you buy on your own the Affordable Care Act lets insurance companies charge 50 percent higher premiums for smokers than nonsmokers. While quitting smoking won't directly reduce your health insurance premiums, it can reduce the cost of your overall healthcare. If people can't be motivated to change their bad habits on their own, maybe higher health care costs will make them think twice about their choices. They do not live as long and even getting treatment for those conditions is no fun. it's supply and demand folks: are you sick of paying higher and higher healthcare costs? I overheard a pharmaceutical rep entice him with all kinds of freebies to push her drugs. Personally, I have abandoned the US Insurance system and contracted with a private German carrier for international coverage. If you have a certain prescription, or just have a test ordered from your doctors, the insurance companies will raise the premiums once a year regardless of whether this condition has been confirmed or not. Then He Blurted out without being called upon. Should fat people and smokers pay more for healthcare insurance? Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. But is it worth the adde A guide to Overseas Health Cover (OVHC) Visa 600. If you choose to inhale smoke and you choose to eat fast food and unhealthy crap in vast quantities, then you choose to pay more for healthcare. So lets use the corporations who stretch across the states to implement this and maybe we can finally get our overweight problem under control. smokers and overweight individuals (among many others) require more healthcare services and resources than healthy individuals. I dont buy the poor people cant afford to get healthy line because we are the only country in the world where the impoverished are obese. The penalty for smoking will depend on where you live or work. Also, smokers miss 6.16 days of work per year compared to non-smokers' 3.86 days, and four ten-minute smoke breaks equate to . If we start down this road than the next thing it would be, anyone with a history of cancer or any other known health problems in their genetic background, would have their Health Care canceled or would have to pay some ridiculous price. People who work in office jobs and sit all day since that's terrible for you? Or you don't wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle or bicycle? (post continues after gallery.). As a fat person who hasn't lost a pound since August 5th, there's more to it. Yes. Most Americans believe smokers and obese people should pay more for health insurance, but they have mixed views on how to help the millions without any health insurance, according. D) Is there any way to motivate self-control? Obviously, but the mere mention of it in this country means you must be a communist, because you're taking money from one group and giving it to another. Jack: Should fat people and smokers pay more for healthcare insurance? There are several acceptable terms such as overweight. As long as there are no consequences for these people for their choices why would they change. Action that smokers and fat people take is costing Health Care. None of us should have to pay anything for health care. Smokers, along with the tobacco industry, should pay to cover healthcare costs associated with their bad habit. Smokers, yes. I pay for an individual policy for our family, (we do not get health insurance through employment) and what most people don't realize is that insurance companies already practice this discrimination. This is why you have some health insurance companies charging different premiums for smokers and non-smokers. Or addicted to prescription medication? In 2011, two-thirds of companies with 200 or more employees set up cessation programs to help their smoking employees quit. Moreover, if smokers are charged higher rates, then other higher-risk groups should also be charged higher rates, since it would be unfair to single out smokers. Read A Warning from China: After the Zero Covid Policy. as for fat people, for many, like some of my wife's relatives, it's a medical condition and being charged more for healthcare would be a "double wammy". Besides, if you make obese people a political issue you will lose at the ballot box because most of are obese. People smoke and never get cancer, people who do not smoke and have cancer, over weight people may be due to other medical problems and they already have problems trying to get insurance. There should be more places where only smokers can smoke freely. So if your reckless with your health then you should pay more, When will man move to his next level of consciousness and realize we're all in this together ? A close examination of the arguments for and against this policy reveals that it is not. As a former smoker I firmly believe that people who engage in unhealthy and unsafe activities should pay more health care but then that only works if they have insurance. Instead of penalizing smokers and obese individuals, reward the the healthy with cash. It always seems people don't do something until it hits their pocketbook. the reward is no more than 20 percent of the total premium; the program is reasonably designed to promote health and prevent disease; eligible employees must be given an opportunity to qualify for the reward at least once per year; and. Who would YOU Hire First ?? Insurance is collective protection against risk. We could be next in line just so because we are short. How would you feel about riding in a car that drives itself? If you use too much insulinyou'll gain weight (who ever you are). Well, the creators of the Affordable Care Act (or the ACA, a.k.a. And people who drive more than others, people who work 3 jobs, people who don't work enough, people who drink too much, those that don't drink enough. Yes, and those with alcohol related diseases. It's a habit that's known to have a detrimental impact on your health. There is always a reason but there is never an excuse for bad health. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances known to man and counseling a patient to quit smoking is one of the most impactful services a doctor can provide. we should just make them pay more for their HEALTH care if they end up fat or smoke a pack Shouldn't my health insurance give me discounts for going to the gym and not smoking? Pepperell, MA. How were we duped and what can we do about the opioid overdose crisis? If you are knowingly putting your health at risk you should be forced to pay more for your insurance. As the fight against tobacco continues to evolve, so should our policy ideas. As a former smoker I would absolutely not blame anybody else (Government, insurance companies, etc.) Information found on the CompareClub website is for general purposes only. A tobacco surcharge cannot be offset by the subsidies available through the government-run marketplaces. Adult film star Ron Jeremy found unable to stand trial for rape But unfortunately it is not popular across the country if govt. which in fact may be caused by preventable environmental conditions. Will they ask those with heart attacks, strokes, cancer, in the family history to pay more also, maybe they should ask those who come up with these senseless ideas to pay more just for being stupid. Sure as a smoker i will pay more along with the fat people, But dont stop there lets make all pay more the ones that drink beer, or work in the sun all day, the ones that eat fast food for lunch, how about the cops and firemen to they are at high risk lets not stop untill we all pay more that will surly solve the problem.. You don't have to be rich to eat healthy, exercise, and give up smoking. Healthy Reader tired of making excuses for my fellow Lazy Americans. Why stop at smokers and the obese. When you apply for health insurance, you are required to report whether or not you are a smoker. Yes, Jack, I think the insurance for smokers should be more expensive. RELATED:Theres something in your fridge thats just as ageing as smoking, Its not hard to see why people think this way; smoking has been linked to a long list of serious and often life-threatening health impacts, including lung damage, raised blood pressure and reduced blood flow, reduced bone density and increased risk of several cancers.
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