The initial organization of clear and reliable communication; this was done practically within a day. [citation needed] Extracts from his tapes were published in Pravda in May 1988. Assignments would be issued, and the completed ones checked. Nevertheless, the information I had convinced me that not everything was well in the development of nuclear energy, as it seemed to me. It was difficult to determine if they were the parachutes burning that had been used to drop the lead and other materials. I looked at the composition of the Government CommissionI can list this first composition if neededand we flew out to Kiev. Fewer young people joined. This wasn't rejected, but as far as I know, even now no such information group has been created. Legasov: Well, how should I put this. The same thing was done to all surfaces that could produce dust. But nevertheless, judging by this basic overview they also had concluded that around half of fuel was inside the reactor and another half had escaped. Especially from Minister Slavsky who was literally stomping his feet, saying that these are different things, and that I am illiterate, that I dont mind my own business, and that it is wrong to compare one reactor to another of a different type. Legasov refers to transcripts of conversations between operators from the night before the accident, . Helicopters dropped over 5 thousand tons of various materials onto the reactor. Additionally, Celites were added into the bodies of damsCelites, shipped from Armenia and Georgia, had a high sorption capacityto capture all the microparticles and all the components of radioactive elements that were in the water and to prevent them from spreading further. Lev Petrovich Feoktistov, a very intelligent and talented man, was given the responsibility of matters of nuclear physics and its special practical applications. Because even though the more than 600 rooms of the 3rd block were cleaned, washed, the radiation condition in the engine room nevertheless remained quite high. In my safe is a record of telephone conversations between the operators on the eve of the accident. [5], In 1976, Legasov was elected a corresponding member of the Academy of Sciences of the Soviet Union. Shortly before his suicide, Legasov did in fact record himself talking about his role in the Chernobyl liquidation effort and his thoughts about what caused the accident. These decisions determined the entire order of organisational work for the rest of the period. The most trivial cleaning methods also had a big effect: regular cleaning of roads, setting up points for decontamination of vehicles and people - all this became more and more organized and sophisticated as time passed. Legasov: No. Legasov was the one who pushed for honesty and evacuation of the town of Pripyat, at a time Soviet officials were trying to cover up the causes of the disaster. Because an attempt by a non-professional to bring some kind of insight into their work could hardly be acceptable the scientific spirit and the scientific atmosphere in reactor engineering gradually began to submit to the engineering will, as it were, to the ministerial will All conceptual talks, all attempts at adopting a scientific, consistent approach towards this problem, they did not accept at all. Adamovich: [inaudible] this is in Chernobyl? Wherein, what is the most important element in this description? The number of people staying at the site was increasing day by day because each group required new assistants, who came either with devices, or with documents, or with work tools that were needed to perform a task. Adamovich: I will note all this down. So we, after pioneering its development, stopped its development for 10 years. Further traditional report lasting in general two hours, room of the academic secretary Nikolai Sergeyevich BABAY, but in order to, discuss the main positions of the report during the break. Then, have a section by Vladimir Fyodorovich Dyomin wherein simply describe the following clearly. The system of a singular person being personally responsible for the quality of the devicewith all the facilities it was installed inwas absent. Because, well, one telegram was just provocative, clearly provocative. As before, Eugeny Pavlovich Velikhov was fully responsible for the largest part of the institutes work: plasma physics and controlled thermonuclear fusion. I repeat that they were invented in continuous phone conversations with Moscow, with experts who assessed, did the thermophysical calculations. As usual, he praised the atomic energy program and the progress that had been achieved. At the same time, under my leadership, work developed in the field of safety of chemical production, which also poses a great danger. How many small aircraft, how many large ones; whether to prioritise comfort when boarding or deboarding passengers, or the speed of travel between two points; whether to give preference to [the development of] hypersonic aircraft or supersonic ones; is ensuring comfortable and reliable operation of ground crew more important for safety, or the work of personnel onboard the aircraft; what should be the percentage of various types of aircraft. I told her that I was leaving on a work trip and that the situation was unclear so I could not say how long I would be away, and then I left for Vnukovo. Mayorec was already there, having arrived before the Government Commission. The RBMK reactor has only one protection [system], unlike the VVER reactor, which is a flagrant violation of principles, the first mistake. Such were the conditions. soon it was necessary to literally fight for the correct implementation of every technological mode. Rather curtly, he stated that they had somewhat messed something up, and an accident of sorts had occurred there, but this would not stop the overall development of the atomic energy program. A military Armoured Personnel Carrier, property of the NBC, was used for this. The first was about the population. And subsequently, from September onwards, all the work on the site of the Chernobyl station and within the contaminated zone was the responsibility of the Government Commission. The work was like a well organized science team. That the accident did not pose any threat to the people in Western Europe and other countries. He as the chairman made the decisions. The iron would oxidize and the temperatures would rise further still. So this is what it is. Nevertheless, all the station workers from the ordinary up to the ministerial staff, were ready for the most rigorous and courageous, so to say, actions. The original deadline for this construction was at the end of September, but various issues that naturally come up prevented this work from being completed in time. Because the philosophy of safety does not depend on what you are dealing with, be it a nuclear reactor, a biological facility where viruses propagate, a chemical plant or something else. The medics did not sign the protocol. We are all used to the fact that this elderly, but, demagogically very active, loudly confident voice within an hour sets out, our department, it is wonderful and beautiful. The rules that they had worked out prior to this accident were as follows. After that, we began to give way sharply in all fields, give way and just started to decline. Legasov: So, on that day and the following days, there was regular communication with Nikolai Ivanovich Ryzhkov and Vladimir Ivanovich Dolgikh. The severity of the radiation conditions meant that the reactor could only be approached from the air, and even then nothing could get closer than about 200 metres above the reactor. I tried to organize opportunities for comparing different points of view, different approaches to general problems of physics and energy. This is when a section of the energy community came out with a proposal. We arrived on the 26th at 8.20 pm. An assessment of the situation was also needed, as well as considering the reactivation of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd blocks. So they seemed novel to me, and, by the way, these reactors also seemed safer than the traditional ones. Because they are competent specialists, sensible people; they can make calculations and have other skills. During this, the project team from NIPIET - Leningrad Design Institute of the Ministry of Medium Machine Building, was working on-site in Chernobyl, and an array of design decisions, though the general design had been developed at the Institute, an array of design decisions were made there on the spot. Around 11 a.m. on the 26th of April, Boris Evdokimovich [Scherbina], after considering all our recommendations, decided to go ahead with the mandatory evacuation. He already knew about the disaster and that they had received a very serious alarm signal from the station the night before. The first assumption was that it is the internal contamination of the building. Adamovich: [Unclear] you talked about nitrogen. But now recalling those days of May, I must say that after N.I.Ryzhkov and E.K.Ligachev had visited the accident sites and verified the situation, we received a command: the composition of the Government commission should be changed. Legasov: To Belorussia, one part, and the other went to Ukraine but in the other direction. Drivable roads had to be scouted to plan routes for the evacuation. Secondly, SEV countries could not be consulted because they didnt have such a device. Well, they didnt kick him out but made his work environment intolerable. Yes? Oct 8, 2020 - The original Russian transcripts from the recorded tapes of Valery Legasov. Legasov: Our general helplessness is again associated with the fact, and lies in the fact, that as long as there is a monopoly of a particular institution over the system, it will continue. It contains the above introduction and the original translation of the text, which I will replace with my revised version when I finish it. So, for the Ministry of Medium Machine Building and, in this sense, also for Anatoly Petrovich Aleksandrov, there was an impression that this reactor, if operated properly and with reliability, is very good and normal. Ivan the WHOLE. Of course, we continuously gathered air samples on filters to measure the amounts and the dynamics of the radioactivity that was being exhaust. This gave the impression that the reactor was live, that something serious had certainly happened. Lev Alekseyevich Voronin, who was in charge of the GC at that time, quickly understood me. And I would very much like to ask to make such a statement that, as of today, we do not have safe nuclear energy, or a concept of safe nuclear energy, or even a concept of a safe nuclear reactor that is completely ready. The work would start very early; at around seven or eight in the morning, the first meeting would be held. This is what forced the station management, apparently out of good intentions, to perform this experiment firstly. As practice has now shown, the sum of measures that have been taken for this reactor has made the vapour coefficient to be no more than one beta. In this reactor, 1,700 tons. Secondly, install the maximum number of sensors that would ascertain the condition of reactor number 4. [37] However, the operators were found to have deviated from operational procedures, changing test protocols on the fly, as well as having made "ill judged" actions, making human factors a major contributing factor. These are the three nuclear stations. It also decomposes the same way. This is Tape 1, part 2. This is the problem. When we were just nearing Pripyat, about 8 to 10 kilometers from it, I was struck by the appearance of the sky. Legasov: What didnt happen didnt happen. In other words, our minds were entirely on the upcoming labour. It is a noisy place; one can miss some auditory signals. So it was impossible to load it into the helicopters, first of all. We got into the cars and set off. He and his associates showed great concern about the quality of the equipment that was supplied to the station. However, from stories and literature, I also knew that a part of this committee was engaged in intelligence and counterintelligence work. And when Nikolai Ivanovich Rizhkov in a politburo meeting spoke his words about how nuclear energy was inevitably moving towards a grave accident, immediately all these facts, accumulated over many years, somehow aligned in my mind, and his words highlighted that it really was so. I recall, perhaps, only one statement by Professor Ivanov from Moscow Engineering-Physics Institute. From this perspective, there was no understanding of the steps that needed to be taken, neither from station personnel nor from the Ministry of Energy. An appropriate team was gathered at night and approximately within three to four hours, they departed to the site. They still cannot understand this, or maybe this is just a self-defensive reaction. This third element was requested by the Finns. For example, the fact that I learnt that Ramsomson, an American, had analyzed the safety of nuclear power plants. Radioactive emissions were still going on but, of course, getting lesser and lesser until about the 20th of May. You are then given special clothing, like this one, blue or white. All this work was done by Marshal Aganov and his team with excellent precision and good organisation. The audio that was on these tapes seems to have been lost, but a transcript was made by Soviet prosecutors - it can be found here (I keep a copy). Vyacheslav Dmitrievich Pismienniy was made responsible for laser technology. Even though we have Atomenergoizdatformerly called Atomizdatmedical publishing houses, the Knowledge society, it turned out that prepared literature that could quickly be distributed among the people to explain, for example, what doses are extremely dangerous for humans, how to behave when a person is inside a zone of increased radiation exposure, a system that could correctly advise on what to measure, how to measure, how to treat fruits and vegetables, the surface of which could be contaminated with beta, gamma, alpha radiationall this literature was totally absent. They did not know what to do; and if they received direct instructions, they did not demonstrate any influence, management skills or ability to remedy the situation. They started to say that they turned the cooling on, turned this or that on. To this day, I haven't heard of a single case where contaminated water had to be pumped out. In fairness, I must say that many experts of the Soviet Union spoke, and very actively spoke, against the construction of nuclear power plants without containments. As a result, essentially sound projects, when developed, turned out to be overly expensive, cumbersome, and not accepted for execution. This was the reason they were unusable. Should the uranium dioxide cells start to melt, large amounts of clay and sand would serve as a shield or filter that could contain at least part of the radioactive components. [19] Upon returning from Chernobyl for the second time on 12 May, he was a changed man, suffering from severe grief and radiation sickness. At the same time, the group that I had called, led by comrade Schupak Aleksander Fyodorovich from our institute, was researching ways to inject these components into the soil in order to absorb the most mobile radionuclides, Caesium being one of them. Between 25 and 75 rem is a matter for the local authorities. The construction of the village Green Cape was astonishingly swift where the 1st and 2nd block staff, who were forced to work in shifts, were accommodated. Valery Finally, because the graphite was still burning, I advised gathering air samples from various points around the station to send to Kiev so that they could test for the presence and relative amounts of CO2 and CO- - data I could use to estimate the highest possible temperature inside reactor number 4. For me it seemed to be important that during this proactive stage the measures to supply people, to create proper living conditions for them, to gather experience for such a large scale work organisation. First, the fate of the local population, and the number of members of station personnel that should remain at the station (and, in its current state, continue to service it). But RBMK, there was only the Leningrad station initially and, yes, Chernobyl and thats all. Valery Legasov, 51, Chernobyl Investigator - The New York . Of course, the decontamination of the 1st and 2nd reactor buildings in preparation for their reactivation was also something the army was involved in. And thereafter would be the concept, developed by Vladimir Mikhailovich, about what safe nuclear energy should look like. And then to catch up, quickly, this option was proposed. Legasov: Of course, later they were all destroyed. But he is too meritorious, has done too much for the country to talk about it in this way, but, Adamovich: [QUESTION ABOUT ALEXANDROV SAYING THAT THE RBMK REACTOR CAN BE PUT IN RED SQUARE]. And so, on the night of the 26th of April, all four types of codes for all types of possible hazards appeared at the Ministry of Energy. Legasov: Or I will. Valery Legassov transcriptions from his tapes Valery Legassov transcriptions from his tapes Open navigation menu Close suggestionsSearchSearch enChange Language And we even thought that it would partially evaporate, cool down in the higher area and then flow down again. So they directed all their efforts towards harmonizing these speeds to make a dry channel. This is very important. Two of these ten projects, I am afraid, will have the same fate, and for roughly the same reasons. Say they allowed it and some cars left, some of the residents left in their own cars, but the cars were, of course, contaminated. Adamovich: [UNINTELLIGIBLE QUESTION] and which system controls all this apart from the Academy? As western experts have shown after our report at the IAEA. Legasov is portrayed by Ade Edmondson in the BBC docudrama Surviving Disaster (2006), by Adam Curtis in his documentary series Pandora's Box (1992), and by Jared Harris in the Sky/HBO miniseries Chernobyl (2019). And there was another episode. And perhaps they should bear criminal responsibility for it. [28] He was very disappointed that he was the only member of his Chernobyl team that did not receive the award "hero of socialist labor". He can be a philosopher, historian, an engineer"[5] The school now bears his name, and his bronze bust stands at the entrance. But the refueling itself took only 18-19 days, while for us it takes around a month and a half, and upto two months at times. Measuring the surface temperature in this manner was still an exceedingly difficult task. Moreover, many of them either hadnt been charged, or the people had not been instructed on how to use them and when to recharge them. I cannot leave unmentioned the huge role that Marshal Aganov played along with his engineering troops. It seems that we all often learn, retrain; a lot of brochures are produced; a lot of time is spent on each erprise. I can't find any factual mention of the tapes being hidden. What is the fault of Anatoly Pavlovich Alexandrov? But, in reality, I think that the full picture of exactly what happened, and how, is not entirely clear to anyone. I would very much like to ask to make such a statement that, as of today, we do not have safe nuclear energy, or a concept of safe nuclear energy, or even a concept of a safe nuclear reactor that is completely ready[7], He had a lengthy stay in hospital during the fall of 1987, including experiencing acute appendicitis,[31] during which he attempted suicide. For example, the many-years-long struggle of Viktor Alekseyevich Sidorenko, that was supported by academician Aleksandrov, resulted in a government resolution for the creation of Gosatomenergonadzor, representatives of which should be present at every station, and every enterprise that manufactures critical equipment for nuclear power stations. One such unfortunate case was when some groups of soldiers had only a single dosimeter carried by their commander, who would estimate the [radiation] dose received by each soldier. Here is the fate of this forest. Even before this commission was created, I had been charged with assessing this project. But coming back to Pripyat As I said, on the 26th of April, at 11 pm, it was decided that the people will be evacuated the next day. This part has to be stated as the completed part. The temperature inside the destroyed block would be limited by the temperature of the burning graphite, which is round about 1,500C or slightly higher. And the Ministry, after evaluating the scientific proposals, was technically obliged to execute them precisely. How should the work be planned and organised? And, each time considerably different figures and results were reported, from astonishingly high to relatively moderate. For this temperature range, lead would be the most suitable element which would additionally act as a shield against radiation. At points, he would pause to criticize a chairman or a specialist for higher rates of workplace injuries, or poor financial performances, or for improper executions of technical operations within our ministry. But during that period it created quite a tense situation. And it is very important to describe the measures that were taken and their significance. Do you understand? However, the use of robots was not successful because all the robots that were tested initially were either mechanically unable to operate among the wreckage, or they simply could not overcome the obstacles on large irregular surfaces. All this was rechecked at other stationsthe same spots, the same weld beadsand not all was perfect. Because it has three elements: a maximally reliable device, a maximally reliable staff, and putting all this underground with maximum reliability, in a rock, under a containment. This work was very meticulously organized. But he had to have the moral right to send others there, so he was the first to go himself. But additionally, any person that had been on an NPP construction site was surprised at the potential of work being done so carelessly, even on such an important project. In a shocking and humbling act of self-sacrifice, Legasov recorded everything he knew about the truth behind Chernobyl's explosion and hung himself, knowing that his sudden death would force. It was wrong. No one could explain what had happened. Adamovich: There were telegrams from Ryzhkov. Equipment can never work at 100 per cent conditions specified by the project, and fully exclude all human error, accidental or perhaps even intentional. And the pace of construction was increasing all the time and this made a lot of sense because, after about 4-5 months of operating the 1st and 2nd blocks in a shift mode of work, it had become obvious that psychologically and even physically it was very hard work. We would need around 2000 tons of lead to be dropped into the crater of the reactor. And when I visited the Chernobyl station after the accident and saw what was happening there, I myself drew a precise and unequivocal conclusion, that the Chernobyl disaster is an apotheosis, the pinnacle of all the mismanagement that has been carried out for decades in our country. But I saw for myself how they would grab the most famous people there, and interview them about some specific issue. The station director. Probably, there were a few thousand suits, civilian, hanging on trees. Three or four or up to ten tons of TNT, this is the maximum that can be said. And if we took the accumulated statistics, then the statistics on the operation of RBMK reactors were minimal compared to the VVER. It went like this. Viktor Alekseyevich Sidorenko had repeatedly criticised it. These were based in Chernigov, onder the command of General Antoshkin who was the chief of staff of that Air Force division. And eventually, Major Antoshkin reported to us in the Government Commissions evening meeting that on that day, they had dropped 1100 tonnes of materials. I want to emphasize that I was possibly the only one, among the people I spoke to, who acutely felt this concern. Others, who possibly knew the situation at the nuclear power plants much better, were sort of very calm about it. Execution of the command begun immediately. What was this fateful mistake? But three projects became very successful, where we found good partners, and where we put in the maximum effort, using the highest levels of the government, using the authority of Anatoly Pavlovich and the Central Committee of the party. Frequent device stoppages, frequent cracks inside crucial structures, imperfect operation of gate valves, malfunctioning channels inside the RBMK reactorsall this was happening every year. In other words, this issue was constantly under his control, as were all the other issues related to the Chernobyl accident. In Kiev, after we got off our plane, what surprised us was a long line of black government cars and an anxious crowd of various Ukrainian chairmen, led by comrade Lyashko Aleksander Petrovich.
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